On Monday, End Times pastor Paul Begley interviewed Russ Dizdar of Shatter The Darkness about last week’s mass shooting at a Florida high school, during which the two floated all sorts of wild theories about what was “really” behind the massacre, which included everything from possible demon possession to astral projection.

Begley hailed Dizdar as “the leading demonologist in the world” and took the opportunity to pepper him with questions regarding various theories about the shooting.

“If it’s the demons, I want to understand that,” Begley said. “Or could he be the victim of satanic ritual abuse? Gonna ask Russ Dizdar that tonight. Or could he be a part of a MK-Ultra victim, if you will, manipulated. Just what exactly is going on? Or is it the video games, virtual reality video games? Is this starting to reshape the minds, especially of some of the troubled individuals who have mental illness? Was this planted, what this done, did they use this weaponized microwave technology to mess with the brain of this kid to get him to do this to try to take away our Second Amendment rights and your right to bear arms?”

For his part, Dizdar said that there could have been any number of nefarious forces behind the massacre, including government agents who were using “astral projection and psychic assassination” to gain control of Nikolas Cruz and carry out the attack using his body.

“Remote viewers can do this from the military side of things,” Dizdar said. “Anyone that is really adept in the world of astral projection, going out of body—not just observing and seeing things, but influencing individuals and actually causing them [to take action.] It’s a term among dark covert dark ops, off-the-grid ops kind of people, psychic warrior type people, they all talk about this ability to get out of body, maybe two or three of them at the same time, triangulate in the ether … They’re empowered, of course, demonically and they go out and they actually can get into the head of another individual.”

“Those are the tools to enable individuals to create highly powerful warriors, which includes the shooters and so forth,” he added. “They call it psychic assassination, get in to somebody, cause them to do a killing, cause them to do a murder, then withdraw and it leaves the person almost as if they are waking up out of a drunk state.”